sourdough starter pineapple juice alternative
I am so thankful for your contribution. The right jar is 100% whole wheat, and the middle jar is a 50/50 mix of the two.

Is it a matter of generations or does it take a longer time? The strategy is quite different from reviving a neglected starter, which is likely to have an overabundance of acid, and a large population of yeast and sourdough bacteria, however sluggish they may be. It's only been one day. One more thing I have found is that with regular feeding at room temperature, new starters seem to improve and get more fragrant right around the two week mark. Now, I know it doesn't have to be that way. The early expansion is caused by a prolific gas-producing bacterium which many mistake for yeast.

Every once in awhile, I google to see what people are saying, and have come across a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding out there about it. I really didn't mean to come across so negative. If I'm trying to flush out acidity and maximize leavening power, I may feed 2:1:1 every four hours or so (if I can) for a day. On day 2, all grew gassy bacteria, but the 100% whole flour started rising first, and you can see by the stair-steps that their starting times and progress were evenly spaced --- like an escalator going up.

I'm not sure about the economics for a commercial operation of lactic acid powder and vinegar as added ingredients, but the fact that there is a grand total of 2 hours of proofing time vs. 16 hours (8 hours for the sponge and 8 hours for the dough) must count for something. What is fascinating is the sporing mechanism and its ability to "lie in wait" for the right conditions. Debra,..just wanted to say that you have done an excellent job of clarifying the microbiology involved in any "culture"..into a subject that NON-scientists can readily understand. I find it interesting that in the procedural notes of research papers, the growth media used is complex and always contains yeast extract in the mix. A light went on at this point when I realized my maintenence is making my starter "what" it is, not being old or tainted in some way. I have not heard of people doing this though. I'm not sure how much of the flour you can pre-ferment and still produce good bread. We know that in S.F. I suspect that starters go through a mini-version of the '4 phase' process each time they are fed. . Thanks. My sour-bread recipe using lactic acid powder and vinegar is a lot more convenient from the standpoint of not having to maintain a starter.

Food Microbiology Fundamentals and Frontiers, 2nd ed. I was happy just to get a starter going. .2 oz. No bubbles or odor is what you want. [3] I wish I could have all the organisms identified at every stage, but there aren't any laboratories in my area that are equipped to identify wild yeasts or sourdough bacteria.

And that's probably best for now, because the math is more straightforward.

Sort of figure out the question behind the questions, because I think the answer starts with fundamentals that hopefully can clear up some of the confusion around sourdough. Is there another fruit juice that I can substitute? If that doesn't do it, skip a feeding or two to allow the acidity to build. The Pineapple Juice Solution, Part 1 | The Fresh Loaf, Lactic Acid Fermentation in Sourdough | The Fresh Loaf, Basic Procedure for Making Sourdough Starter | Cooks Talk, my cheese culture sourdough post/notes blog, Sesame Wholewheat + Red Gum Miche + 100% Wholegrain Spelt. Works just as well as feeding the first 3 days, and less work even if no faster. My lactic-acid starter experiment continues to languish. Lactic acid bacteria are actively growing at this point. Start by providing conditions for the first two to three days which are favorable to lactic acid bacteria. Two tablespoons is enough to mix easily without being overly wasteful (and just happens to be the volume of an eighth-cup coffee scoop, which is what I kept on the counter next to the flour and seed culture for quick, easy feeding). They used it all up either for baking bread or for propagating the sponge. Yes it is.

You'll never hear me say that pineapple juice is necessary in creating a starter---only patience. 2. The problem with the old starter was that it seemed to have plenty of yeast activity and would raise a loaf, but the loaves were completely lacking in sourness.

Eric, in theory, yes. Then I proceeded according to the plan. There are bacteria in flour that prefer the more neutral pH of freshly mixed flour and water (like Leuconostoc and company). Food Microbiology Fundamentals and Frontiers, 2nd ed. No worries, thanks for your reply and warm welcome.

This leads me to think the LAB's, if any, weren't actively producing lactic acid.

But now I think it was simply an indicator that the pH had dropped low enough to activate aspartic proteinases, pH-sensitive enzymes abundant in wheat. Room temperature is different from one kitchen to the next, as well as season to season. If the addition of the flour to the acidified water moves the pH upward significantly, the mixture may not be as conducive to yeast and LAB growth as intended. In addition, they decided not to experiment with lactic acid because they didn't want to deal with dairy products.Having a pH meter and a supply of lactic acid powder on hand, I decided to do a little experimenting. This grocery chain ships parbakes to their stores and bakes the finished loaves in the store. While this has been a discovery process for me, it is not a new discovery: "There has been nice work done in Rudi Vogel's lab on the microflora of a freshly started sourdough: first, there are enterobacteria (Escherichia coli, Salmonella, Enterobacter), highly undesirable organisms that stink terribly. Maybe even lighter. I also baked off a few pies right away, to adjust the sugar, spices and thickening. This time I decided to try something different.I had always resisted using the "pineapple-juice solution" because I didn't want to add fructose, citric acid, bromelain and other sugars and ingredients to my starter which are not endemic to a mature sourdough culture. It's just a question of when. Last time I re-built them, I substituted a little of the WW starter for the White starter and that made the White starter a lot more sour tasting and now it is starting to smell sour too. How often can/will you feed it, realistically?

The lactobacilli certainly fall under that heading, but so do many other genera, including Leuconostoc, Weissella, Pediococcus, and many others that are commonly found in sourdoughs and other fermented or spoiled foods. Fruits, Vegetables, and Grains, p. 135. I stirred the water and the pH dropped from 4.3 to 3.5 — just the pH I was aiming for! In a glass measuring cup (2-4 cup), or other bowl, mix together: > 1/4 c. pineapple juice (room temperature or slightly warm) > 1/4 c. all-purpose flour (organic, if possible) > 1/4 c. fresh, home-ground whole wheat flour (or from a reputable supplier) 2.

David, good to see you again, and thank you :-)  The flavor changes are a bit beyond my scope, but I think this has more to do with chemical changes happening in the bread as it ages, rather than bio-chemical action of living organisms. Then the initial recipe might be reduced to read:  Instant Sourdough >>  2 drops potion #9, 2 Tbs Pineapple juice, 2 Tbs whole flour!

Without knowing any of this very helpful scientific explanation, I took Reinhart's formula on faith, and used "lemon juice". Am I missing out by keeping it simple? Also you could lose leavening power both in reduced numbers of yeast and reduced vigor. The fact I cant control all of it, just some of it,  and there is all of this "life and death struggle, natural selection, etc"  going on in a mix of flour and water keeps my head in the game. Temperature, hydration, feeding rate and schedule, flour---these are all things that we can manipulate to change that environment.


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